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“It was the Christian tradition that produced atheism as its fruit; it led to the murder of God in the consciences of men because it presented them with an unbelievable God.” - Paul Valadier

Ancient skeletal remains shed new light on evolution - CNN.com

What are your views regarding last week's (April 8) CNN Headline? Post your thoughts here

 

Why I believe in God

I have primitive Christianity to thank for returning my belief in God. No, it was not through a supernatural vision nor was it some sort of a miraculous experience, but a logical conscientious decision due to all the evidence I was presented. Primitive Christianity is based on reason rather than wishful thinking. It differs greatly from traditional religion. Allow me to explain a little about the precepts of primitive Christianity.

In his book The Empty Church author Thomas C. Reeves said traditional Christianity "tends to be superficial,  its adherents are poorly educated in the faith." Just think about the message of "salvation" that most people think of when Christianity is mentioned. A popular video on YouTube also entitled "Christianity in a Nutshell" presents it this way:

 


Although the video is irreverent regarding the Christian faith, it does pretty much sum up how a logical person would view it. Worshiping a zombie who is his own father pretty much defines the Trinitarian concept of God, does it not? Although not a Bible teaching, it is the central doctrine of all religions of Christendom.

The video could have added the supposedly "Christian" teaching of the future prospect of everlasting life in a fiery hell for all those who rejected this version of God. If you pin an Evangelist on this subject he/she will state that Christ came to save you from going to hell ... but you must believe it in order for that salvation to work.

Later on we will discuss each point made in the video and place it in another section of this website.

So, what was it exactly that changed my philosophy concerning God in in the summer of 1968?

Allow me to start by stating that all my prior thoughts about God were centered on me, (i.e.) what I expected of Him. This is where I believe most people who deny God's existence fail to see the issue at hand, the issue being the reasons behind accepting or rejecting the existence of a Supreme Being. Many reasons people accept the concept of a Deity are just as flawed as those who reject it.

Traditional Christianity teaches that we are inherently immortal, that we somehow survive this life and continue on in a place called heaven or hell as somewhat of a punishment or reward for what we do or fail to do during our brief physical existence on this planet. Traditional Christianity is based on superstitious wishful thinking and has no Scriptural nor any logical support. Reasoning people know that their existence began at conception and it ends when their vital organs cease to function, especially the most vital organ: the brain.

Surprisingly, primitive Christianity taught me that Scripture supports an atheistic view of death; it is the complete opposite of life. Ecclesiastes 3:19 explains that there is absolutely no difference between the death of a man or the death of a non-human, be it zebra, dog or a cat. Death is non-life. It is that simple. However, this is where the similarities between atheism and primitive Christianity both begin and end.

Humans were not created in the image of God with regards to immortality, but instead with our capacity to love one another. It is this quality, not human immortality, that proves God's existence. Superstitions regarding human afterlife only get in the way of us coming to know God. "Heaven or Hell" theology is just a scare tactic used by Scripturally dishonest individuals who use pain/pleasure principles to misled and manipulate their followers.

At the end of the fifth chapter of Matthew, in Jesus' world-famous Sermon on the Mount, he commands us to be "perfect" in imitating his Heavenly Father. "God is love" as 1 John 4:8 tells us and only by practicing this godly trait can we come to know Him.

Primitive Christianity is the religion started by Jesus and continued by his followers. It is striped of all additions that creped in centuries later and contaminated it. Basically, in a nutshell, it states that God exists and that only He is immortal, in the same sense as when Jesus said that only His Father was "good" at Mark 10:18.

We come to believe in something when we come to understand what it is and thus I believe in God because:

  • God is love. - 1 John 4:8

  • Because He is love, God cannot use evil means. - James 1:13

  • Only what is good and perfect comes from Him. - James 1:17

  • Primitive Christians' identifying mark is love. - John 13:34-35

  • Only love will allow us to understand His Word. - Daniel 12:10

  • Only those who practice love by coming to the aid of Christ's brothers will ultimately be saved. - Matthew 25:31-46

The above Scriptural principles discard superstitious notions about God, such as the concept that He extends a person's life for the sole purpose of eternally torturing that individual. Would you not agree such an idea is an absurdity?

A onetime ex-atheist who became a primitive Christian and practiced the Christian principle (love) stated: "Even if there were no God and this life were all we had; there is no better way to live life!"

Trusting in God means exactly that. We are mortal creatures with a short life span and the only hope for a future existence rests in the hands of a Being who cannot die.

My book, God cannot die!, will be out in various formats (Word, PDF, Kindle, etc.) for you to download free-of-charge within the coming weeks.  I can send a rough draft first to those who request it and would be willing to point out errors or suggest improvements and changes. Please email your request to robinsonworld@hotmail or primitivechristians@hotmail.com

It is a good thing that millions of people are turning away from false notions of God, however, the bad thing about this is that they are going to the opposite extreme, namely, denying God's existence altogether.  A more sensible step would be to turn to primitive Christianity.

 

 

 

 

Agnosticism & Atheism:
Thread #43136
God cannot die!

The Discussion has over 250 posts. Only serious questions and responses will be presented and edited here. Click here if you wish to read all posts.

 

Opening Post:

I've been an "old earth" creationist for over 40 years now and the more I study and discuss it, the more logical sense it makes.

A general assumption in the scientific community has it that "something" eternal had to exist as a prerequisite in order for a "beginning" to occur. Some may consider it to have been energy, chaos, even an undiscovered (as of yet) force; whatever it was, it has to be eternal.

"My Story" is on my website at www.Godcannotdie.com and I will be continually adding to it until I basically go through how I interpret the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

This is my first attempt at writing a book and it will be a semi-autobiography. I'll be translating it into Spanish as I go. I can use all the help I can get.

As far as views of "young earth" creationist, such as those of Kent Hovind, had they been offered me in 1968, I would have remained in your camp until this day. :)

I've been checking the internet for years and there is no website that even comes close to the logical Scriptural explanation given me 41 years ago.

I'd like to start with just the first two chapters of Genesis, which I believe to be one creation account that eliminates the possibility of a 144 hour creation of the universe Bible literalists insist upon.

Stephen Robinson
Real Name

English: Where are the Dead? PDF                      
Spanish: ¿Dónde están los Muertos? HTML        ¿Dónde están los Muertos? PDF

 

http://www.quotedstatements.com/default.html  23310
http://www.quotedstatements.com/default.htm  3241
http://www.quotedstatements.com/menu.htm  2331
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/index.htm  1980
http://www.quotedstatements.com/preaching.htm  1942
http://www.quotedstatements.com/traditional-christianity.htm  1872
http://www.quotedstatements.com/gcd.htm  1849
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/byzantine.htm  1668
http://www.quotedstatements.com/indx_149.html  1493
http://www.quotedstatements.com/ex-atheism.htm  1373
http://www.quotedstatements.com/fotm.htm  1191
http://www.quotedstatements.com/be.htm  1177
http://www.quotedstatements.com/through.htm  1216
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/nwt.htm  1088
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/myversions.htm  1061
http://www.quotedstatements.com/index.htm  1075
http://www.quotedstatements.com/4001.htm  1029
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/colwell.htm  978
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/jehovah.htm  985
http://www.quotedstatements.com/overview.htm  1009
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/tr.htm  995
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/theotes.htm  945
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/comma.htm  928
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/abaddon.htm  819
http://www.quotedstatements.com/death.htm  926
http://www.quotedstatements.com/nutshell.html  917
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/kjames.htm  833
http://www.quotedstatements.com/0.htm  811
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/constantine.htm  828
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/kolasin.htm  811
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/ghoward.htm  802
http://www.quotedstatements.com/trinity.htm  726
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/sitemap.htm  709
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/soul.htm  703
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/bible1.htm  685
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/firstborn.htm  680
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/anomalies.htm  673
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/rhodes_jhvh.htm  672
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/monogenesreply.htm  665
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/1975.htm  663
http://www.quotedstatements.com/ms.htm  659
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/inclusive.htm  656
http://www.quotedstatements.com/christ.htm  654
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/jhvh.htm  653
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/contradictions2.htm  649
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/apologetics.htm  642
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/isv.htm  641
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/bible2.htm  632
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/biblist.htm  627
http://www.quotedstatements.com/--0.htm  614
http://www.quotedstatements.com/cg.html  612
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/kjv.htm  610
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/symbol_cross.htm  606
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/links.htm  605
http://www.quotedstatements.com/dnpm.htm  596
http://www.quotedstatements.com/bible-files/contradictions.htm  591

 


Wikipedia

Tetragrammaton
 

   The Tetragrammaton (Greek: τετραγράμματον word with four letters) is the Hebrew name for God, which is spelled (in Hebrew); yod י heh ה vav ו heh ה or יהוה (YHVH), it is the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel.

Of all the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently is the Tetragrammaton, appearing 6,823 [SIX THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED TWENTY-THREE] times according to the JewishEncyclopedia.com (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=52&letter=N). According to Biblica Hebraica and Biblica Hebraica Stuttgartensia, the original texts of the Hebrew Scriptures, written in both Hebrew and Aramaic, contain the Tetragrammaton 6,828 times. It is evident that the Tetragrammaton was used very extensively in original language, ancient Hebrew and Aramaic texts. This indicates a much more personal reference to the special identity of the Almighty (as opposed to impersonal titles such as "God" or "Lord"), on the part of the Bible writers. Many Bible scholars view this as evidence that the Bible writers (and indeed, likely the ancient Hebrew and Israelite people) viewed the Name represented by the Tetragrammaton as very important, and commonly used it in their everyday speech and prayers. And, for those that believe the Bible was inspired by God, it shows how he felt about his own personal name.

In Judaism, the Tetragrammaton is the ineffable name of God, and is not pronounced. Other written forms such as ד׳ or ה׳ are read as "ha-Shem" (The Name), for this reason.

One theory regarding the Tetragammaton is that the Jewish taboo on its pronunciation was so strong that the original pronunciation may have been lost somewhere in the first millennium. Since then, many scholars (particularly Christians) have sought to reconstruct its original pronunciation. For example, circa 1518 Christian theologians1 introduced the pronunciation "Yehovah" , which is generally held to be grammatically implausible based on the written form יֱהוִֹה that was used to indicate to the reader of the Bible in Hebrew to pronounce it "Elohim" (אֱלהִׄם).

Quoted Statements:

"I have a great respect for Christianity. I often read the Sermon on the Mount and have gained much from it. I know of no one who has done more for humanity than Jesus. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Christianity, but the trouble is with you Christians. You do not begin to live up to your own teachings." - Mahatma Gandhi

I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. The materialism of affluent Christian countries appears to contradict the claims of Jesus Christ that says it's not possible to worship both Mammon and God at the same time.
-Mahatma Gandhi

As quoted by William Rees-Mogg in The Times [London] (4 April 2005). Gandhi here makes reference to a statement of Jesus: “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." (Luke 16:13); also partly quoted in Christianity in the Crosshairs : Real Life Solutions Discovered in the Line of Fire (2004) by Bill Wilson

Primitive Christianity

Question to the reader:

The fact that God cannot die and the original version of Christianity are so closely interwoven can be seen in the only celebration authentic Christians were commanded to observe.  Search as you may, you will find no other observance that specifically states nor implies the following: "Keep doing this in remembrance of me." - Luke 22:19.

It is the time of year when primitive Christianity and the subject of  when to celebrate the death of our Lord is so important. Last year you should should have observed it after sundown on Thursday April 9, but this year  it fell on Tuesday evening, March 30th and next year it falls on a Sunday, April 17th.

Are you following tradition or are you observing Christ's command recorded at Luke 22:19? Why was it on Tuesday, March 30 after sundown this year and why was it on a Thursday evening (April 9th) last year? Why it will be on a Sunday (April 17th) next year in 2011? You may reason: Well, at least Christmas always falls on the same date each year and the traditional celebrations of Good Friday and Easter Sunday this week always fall on the same days of the week. You should ask the people who extend invitations to celebrate Christ's death on the Jewish calendar of Nisan 14 to explain Luke 22:19 within its historical and scriptural context.

Here is some interesting information about primitive Christians who were called Quartodecimans. Just another instance where primitive Christianity differs so greatly from traditional religion.

The Christians of Asia Minor were called Quartodecimans [Fourteenthers] from their custom of celebrating the pascha [Lord’s Evening Meal] invariably on the 14th of Nisan . . . The date might fall on Friday or on any of the other days of the week.”The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume IV, page 44.

“As regards the day for observing the Pascha [the Lord’s Evening Meal], the usage of the Quartodeciman churches of Asia was continuous with that of the Jerusalem church. In the 2nd century these churches at their Pascha on the 14th of Nisan commemorated the redemption effected by the death of Christ.”
—Studia Patristica, Volume V, 1962, page 8.

Because they did so on Nisan 14, they were called Quartodecimans, meaning “fourteenthers.” “The Christians of Asia Minor were accustomed to celebrate this sacred feast, commemorative of the institution of the Lord’s supper, and the death of Jesus Christ, at the same time when the Jews ate their Paschal lamb, namely on the evening of the fourteenth day of the first month [Nisan]. . . . They considered the example of Christ possessing the force of law.”
—Historian J. L. von Mosheim.

For the next two centuries, many Christians held to Nisan 14, they being known as Quartodecimans, from the Latin for “14th.” “The churches of Asia Minor celebrated the death of the Lord on the day corresponding to the 14th of the month Nisan, on which day, according to the opinion of the whole ancient Church, the crucifixion took place.”
—M’Clintock and Strong.

“The Christians of Asia Minor were accustomed to celebrate this sacred feast, commemorative of the institution of the Lord’s supper, and the death of Jesus Christ, at the same time when the Jews ate their Paschal lamb, namely on the evening of the fourteenth day of the first month. For . . . they considered the example of Christ possessing the force of law; and, as is equally manifest, they did not conceive our Savior to have anticipated the passover, . . . but that the Paschal lamb was eaten by him and his disciples on the same day on which the Jews . . . were accustomed to eat theirs.”
—Historian Mosheim, History of Christianity, the First Three Centuries, Vol. 1, p. 529.

What tradition caused early Christians to stop observing what Christ commanded?

“It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom (the calculation) of the Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and whose minds were blinded.” —A History of the Christian Councils, by K. J. Hefele, Volume 1, page 322.

To be in such a position was viewed as a “‘humiliating subjection’ to the Synagogue which irked the Church,” says J. Juster, quoted in Studia Patristica, Volume IV, 1961, page 412.

 

 


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